Jefferson Park Changes 2016

[CampinCarl]

Update:
Well, it's official:

Recreation.gov Jefferson Park Designated Campsite Reservations, OR

Map:

http://www.recreation.gov/nrso/or/jpdc/JPDC.pdf

[RobinB]

Map:

http://www.recreation.gov/nrso/or/jpdc/JPDC.pdf

Wow, the area considers considerably further north than I thought it was. Too bad: There are a bunch of nice, unofficial spots up near the top of Park Ridge that I guess are now illegal.

[CampinCarl]

Robin,

I think you might be ok. From the Recreation.gov posting: "There are five lakes within Jefferson Park and a total of 30 designated campsites that are available for reservation. To protect the sensitive subalpine meadows and fragile vegetation, camping within 250 feet of these lakes requires use of a designated campsite." I think the dot patterned area is just the area where campfires are banned.

[mattisnotfrench]

Update:
Well, it's official:

Recreation.gov Jefferson Park Designated Campsite Reservations, OR

Map:

http://www.recreation.gov/nrso/or/jpdc/JPDC.pdf

I was told by somebody in the know that the Ranger Station was waffling on implementing this due to the negative feedback. I guess they decided to go ahead with it. If you read back this thread I have stated my support for this policy, but it is something of a bummer. Hopefully it's not a giant mess the way these things can be.

[RobinB]

Robin,

I think you might be ok. From the Recreation.gov posting: "There are five lakes within Jefferson Park and a total of 30 designated campsites that are available for reservation. To protect the sensitive subalpine meadows and fragile vegetation, camping within 250 feet of these lakes requires use of a designated campsite." I think the dot patterned area is just the area where campfires are banned.

Oh nice, thanks for the clarification!

[Water]

how does this apply to PCT thru hikers? guess they won't ever be camping by the lakes, even if they show up after dark and a spot is empty--that's not allowed!

There is no fee for the campsite; however, there is a $6 reservation fee.

Why do they bother with such stupid doublespeak like that? That's like ticketmaster telling me there is no fee for will call pickup but there will be a convenience fee on buying my tickets.

I'm glad they got negative feedback. Have the wilderness ranger go up there on a friday and saturday nights for a few weekends when it is busy and slap people (and their entire group) with $500 tickets. The people making a fire or camped up on the lake in a non designated site. Those cited will piss and moan to high heaven and it will be witnessed by other people around and the area will get a reputation as a place to follow the rules. Organize a work crew to dig a few pit toilets like they have in the enchantments. This would be a way more effective method to get people to respect the area than trying to educate them in the errors of their ways with a puppet show or whatever soft tactics they were espousing before, or thinking an 'app' and online is going to be an effective long-term behavior modifier.

[Koda]

I'm glad they got negative feedback. Have the wilderness ranger go up there on a friday and saturday nights for a few weekends when it is busy and slap people (and their entire group) with $500 tickets. The people making a fire or camped up on the lake in a non designated site. Those cited will piss and moan to high heaven and it will be witnessed by other people around and the area will get a reputation as a place to follow the rules. Organize a work crew to dig a few pit toilets like they have in the enchantments. This would be a way more effective method to get people to respect the area than trying to educate them in the errors of their ways with a puppet show or whatever soft tactics they were espousing before, or thinking an 'app' and online is going to be an effective long-term behavior modifier.

(like I learned in a certain different political topic) just enforcing the perfectly effective laws already in place doesn’t earn politicians money or votes. I guarantee if they just dedicated some time to ticketing with heavy fees it would have an impact and earn some revenue.

[markesc]

Prediction: One of these "hey man, the rules don't apply to me" morons will start a fire, lose control of it, resulting in a nice N. Side Mt. Hood look.

I'm sick of this notion that people "don't know" the rules. No more excuses. Fine the living HELL out of them. $500 is a complete joke/kids stuff. No "warnings." None of that! Let's make it $10,000 / wage garnishment/judgement/destroy credit / make an example of them. How longs your beard now!?! hahaahahaa

[funhog]

A friend of mine is a backcountry ranger up in the Jefferson Wilderness and is up there every week. He just started his patrols for the year. He loves the Wilderness as much as the rest of us and would much prefer to educate folks breaking the rules than ticket them. That said, I have personally seen him write a huge ticket to scofflaws. A ticket from a ranger is a federal offense.

As for installing outhouses, they would violate the 1964 Wilderness Act. Even if they were allowed, I would not enjoy seeing/smelling one in the backcountry. I can't begin to imagine how one would be maintained. Mule? Helicopter? Personally, I get out there to see a world with minimal impact from people.

[Water]

funhog, I see you never got a proper response on this last may.

Like your ranger friend, if I was a police officer I too would much prefer to educate folks breaking the law than to ticket them or arrest. Much easier! Your friend is up there every week? And how can the poor behavior continue? Maybe he should just fine people, obviously his educational talks aren't working...sounds like we can remove the red herring of 'not enough personnel' when that line gets trotted out.

As for outhouses, it would not violate the wilderness act to put a pit toilet. Unless you can tell me how the Enchantments or Mt. Margaret backcountry got exemptions. It's manual labor. I'd help dig in Jeff is they did that. Much smarter, where do you think everyone's feces ends up other than under rocks, by bushes, or in shallow holes?

That said, lo and behold I predicted an online permit would not change attitudes and behaviors. And looks like it didn't do a thing. Maybe instead of just outright limiting people we can have ye olde backcountry ranger enforce the existing laws, ticket folks, and help change attitudes and behaviors. The same way people won't keep speeding in an area the cops regularly set up a speed trap? How many times I told guests visiting us when we lived in Beaverton "So the place will be on the left, but as you're coming down the hill, make sure you don't speed they often have a van with a speed camera there!". How many times does a group need to get popped with $500 federal citations that don't get knocked down before word spreads like this. "Oh, I know a great place for you to take your cousin/uncle/etc backpacking.. just make sure you follow the rules, or they will slam you with a ticket!"
Jefferson Park permit system fails to stop damaging camping
http://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/n ... /96216430/