If you cash out your 401k prior to age 59 1/2, not only are they going to withhold 20% as a pre-payment of taxes, but they are also going to hit you with a 10% early withdrawal penalty.
That 10% penalty is huge.
I strongly suggest you do not follow this path.
PCT 2014/2015
Re: PCT 2014/2015
The USA would be at or near ZPG (zero population growth) if Bush and Obama hadn't left the southern border open for the invasions.Guy wrote:US is a long long way from a "Stable Population" though, guess you have to cross that not insignificant hurdle first....retired jerry wrote:I wasn't trying to "rain on your parade" eitherNice to have good experiences.
Yeah, economies dependent on constant growth. I think it will be possible to gradually shift to non-growth without catastrophe. Aren't some of the Norwegian countries at stable population? Doing quite well.
Re: PCT 2014/2015
Not all natural resources are finite.potato wrote:In short, I think it is a problem that our economy depends on constant expansion because natural resources are finite. So I want to see it shrink rather than grow. It may be hard for people financially when it shrinks, but that beats poisoning the planet to the point that nobody can live on it.
You may be right about the 401k thing, I wasn't trying to be defensive I just wanted to explain my reasons for feeling as I do.
Thanks Chase
If you worry about poisoning the planet, why do you tool around in your car?
Re: PCT 2014/2015
There is only one Norweigan country. It is named Norway.retired jerry wrote:I wasn't trying to "rain on your parade" either
Yeah, economies dependent on constant growth. I think it will be possible to gradually shift to non-growth without catastrophe. Aren't some of the Norwegian countries at stable population? Doing quite well.
Norway's economy has expanded an average of .65% or so since 1978. That isn't quite well.
Re: PCT 2014/2015
That's a fair point, most US population growth is because of immigration, both legal & illegal...xrp wrote:The USA would be at or near ZPG (zero population growth) if Bush and Obama hadn't left the southern border open for the invasions.Guy wrote:US is a long long way from a "Stable Population" though, guess you have to cross that not insignificant hurdle first....retired jerry wrote:I wasn't trying to "rain on your parade" either
Yeah, economies dependent on constant growth. I think it will be possible to gradually shift to non-growth without catastrophe. Aren't some of the Norwegian countries at stable population? Doing quite well.
Re: PCT 2014/2015
It's perfectly fine if the folks in Norway have a standard of living that they are happy with.xrp wrote: There is only one Norweigan country. It is named Norway.
Norway's economy has expanded an average of .65% or so since 1978. That isn't quite well.
You can't have an expanding population with a stat like that though unless your happy to reduce your own standard of living on a yearly basis.
Re: PCT 2014/2015
drm, thanks for sharing your story about your choice to leave your career. I don't want a life of staring at the clock waiting to get off work for the day either. I'm just not money-motivated enough to spend all my time at work. I'd rather have less money and more free time. I'm actually thinking of getting my CDL at some point, I figure if I work just 2 months per year as a truck driver I could earn enough to travel the rest of the time. Or maybe I'll consider taking a 6 month contract at my previous employer. Ideally I'll find something I like better, and that I feel actually benefits people, as you were saying.
Aimless, thanks for the kind words. Yes I do realize that big choices have potential consequences. It's just that those consequences seem insignificant compared to the feeling I get when I think about NOT living my life this way.
With my heart problem, I'm in a place right now where all is functioning well, I have no complications, my cardiologist encourages me to hike and travel, I'm not on any medications, etc. But I have no idea how long it will last. I could get another valve infection requiring IV antibiotics, or something else could go wrong that would require another open heart surgery. Maybe some day I will be on a pacemaker or blood thinners. I don't know how many years life will be this simple. I want to enjoy my freedom to take on physical challenges and unconventional lifestyles while I am healthy, rather than slave away my healthy years to build up a retirement fund that I can't even use when I'm older (or dead).
Splintercat, thanks -- I was born in 87 so apparently that makes me a millenial. I hope my generation will make some good choices! I don't set my expectations too high though.
-Q-, I only paid into this 401k for less than 3 years so it's not a huge amount of money. The penalty is a bummer but it's not enough to make me want to wait 32 more years to withdraw. Another thing I realized, my company was matching 40% of my contributions as I was putting money in, so it's like they effectively paid for the taxes and I'm just getting my own money back (which I earned, and should be free to spend however and whenever I want ) Anyway... the deed is done.
xrp, which natural resources do you consider to be infinite?
If I worry about poisoning the planet, why do I tool around in my car? Well, you're right, I do burn diesel when I drive. It took about 90 gallons to get from Key West to Portland over the last few weeks. I would have less environmental impact if I didn't drive around.
On the other hand, being houseless means I use less of other resources; I use very little electricity, less than 2 gallons of water per day when I'm on the road, no natural gas, heating/cooling, etc... and I'm not constantly buying appliances and furniture and other manufactured items and throwing stuff in the dump. So, I see car-dwelling as a less impactful lifestyle overall. When I'm not traveling cross-country I don't even burn that much fuel.
When I'm on trail my only real environmental impact is the food wrappers I throw away in the trash (and the resources used to make the food of course).
But honestly, this is all beside the point... contrary to a lot of greenie people I don't think the main problem is the way average citizens live their lives. I don't scowl at the guy driving a big truck, thinking he's polluter #1. I don't think we're saving the planet with compact fluorescent bulbs and better recycling and composting programs (residential waste accounts for something like 4% of the total landfill waste generated I think?). Slight reductions don't solve the problem. The destruction is on a systemic level, and yes the average citizen plays a role in the sense that we are all voting with our dollars every day on how we want the earth to be, and people are still paying into a destructive system. But I think the significant changes will come when we stop prioritizing money on a national level, because the destructive things we do are generally done to earn a profit, and realistically we will probably fail to re-prioritize unless we get to the point that people are dying off in large numbers as a direct result of our environmental destruction, and maybe not even then. Humans tend to be short-sighted.
So everyone's lifestyle is different. I'm not concerned so much about people's individual environmental impact as I am with how they think about it, what they're doing to change the patterns they're in, and their willingness to customize their resource demands to meet their particular needs/desires rather than assuming "I must have this thing".
Maybe what my generation is realizing is that "standard of living" can't be measured in dollars. Happiness comes from things like physical/mental/emotional health, community, adventure, love, freedom, stability. Money can help people achieve some of those things more easily, but if you are willing to be flexible you can lead a very happy and healthy life below the poverty line. And some of those things are actually harder to achieve when your focus is making money. People my age have seen our parents stressing out about money for so many years, we've seen them sacrifice their healthy bodies and minds to jobs they don't like just to get money that they don't even truly need. What's the point?
The people who want the economy to keep growing also want you to think that having money is the only way to obtain anything that will make you happy, the only way to feel safe, so you better have a job and keep working. I believe it's really all about who your friends are, and I think doing something like a PCT hike is actually a completely sound monetary investment simply because of the connections you make with other hikers who are flexible-minded, motivated, confident, self-loving and successful people. Because of friends I've made in the past few years, I have a "permanent second home" on a farm in NW portland, I have friends across the country who would happily host me, I have smart&understanding friends who are willing to help me think through any life issues I'm trying to resolve, I have hiking buddies, I know people who do all kinds of different jobs and could possibly help me get a foot in the door if I wanted to try it. One way to see it is that you can focus on earning a bunch of money, which you can spend on a house & insurance so you feel secure, on counseling so that you feel understood, on expensive groceries so you feel healthy, on expensive trips so you can feel adventurous, on a diamond ring so you can "secure" someone else's love. But still your need wasn't money, it was security/understanding/health/adventure/love. You can seek out each of your true needs in a more direct and organic way and leave money out of the picture, depending more on a loving network of friends, giving you much more free time to enjoy your few short breaths on this planet. At least, that's what's making sense for my life at the moment
Aimless, thanks for the kind words. Yes I do realize that big choices have potential consequences. It's just that those consequences seem insignificant compared to the feeling I get when I think about NOT living my life this way.
With my heart problem, I'm in a place right now where all is functioning well, I have no complications, my cardiologist encourages me to hike and travel, I'm not on any medications, etc. But I have no idea how long it will last. I could get another valve infection requiring IV antibiotics, or something else could go wrong that would require another open heart surgery. Maybe some day I will be on a pacemaker or blood thinners. I don't know how many years life will be this simple. I want to enjoy my freedom to take on physical challenges and unconventional lifestyles while I am healthy, rather than slave away my healthy years to build up a retirement fund that I can't even use when I'm older (or dead).
Splintercat, thanks -- I was born in 87 so apparently that makes me a millenial. I hope my generation will make some good choices! I don't set my expectations too high though.
-Q-, I only paid into this 401k for less than 3 years so it's not a huge amount of money. The penalty is a bummer but it's not enough to make me want to wait 32 more years to withdraw. Another thing I realized, my company was matching 40% of my contributions as I was putting money in, so it's like they effectively paid for the taxes and I'm just getting my own money back (which I earned, and should be free to spend however and whenever I want
) Anyway... the deed is done.xrp, which natural resources do you consider to be infinite?
If I worry about poisoning the planet, why do I tool around in my car? Well, you're right, I do burn diesel when I drive. It took about 90 gallons to get from Key West to Portland over the last few weeks. I would have less environmental impact if I didn't drive around.
On the other hand, being houseless means I use less of other resources; I use very little electricity, less than 2 gallons of water per day when I'm on the road, no natural gas, heating/cooling, etc... and I'm not constantly buying appliances and furniture and other manufactured items and throwing stuff in the dump. So, I see car-dwelling as a less impactful lifestyle overall. When I'm not traveling cross-country I don't even burn that much fuel.
When I'm on trail my only real environmental impact is the food wrappers I throw away in the trash (and the resources used to make the food of course).
But honestly, this is all beside the point... contrary to a lot of greenie people I don't think the main problem is the way average citizens live their lives. I don't scowl at the guy driving a big truck, thinking he's polluter #1. I don't think we're saving the planet with compact fluorescent bulbs and better recycling and composting programs (residential waste accounts for something like 4% of the total landfill waste generated I think?). Slight reductions don't solve the problem. The destruction is on a systemic level, and yes the average citizen plays a role in the sense that we are all voting with our dollars every day on how we want the earth to be, and people are still paying into a destructive system. But I think the significant changes will come when we stop prioritizing money on a national level, because the destructive things we do are generally done to earn a profit, and realistically we will probably fail to re-prioritize unless we get to the point that people are dying off in large numbers as a direct result of our environmental destruction, and maybe not even then. Humans tend to be short-sighted.
So everyone's lifestyle is different. I'm not concerned so much about people's individual environmental impact as I am with how they think about it, what they're doing to change the patterns they're in, and their willingness to customize their resource demands to meet their particular needs/desires rather than assuming "I must have this thing".
Maybe what my generation is realizing is that "standard of living" can't be measured in dollars. Happiness comes from things like physical/mental/emotional health, community, adventure, love, freedom, stability. Money can help people achieve some of those things more easily, but if you are willing to be flexible you can lead a very happy and healthy life below the poverty line. And some of those things are actually harder to achieve when your focus is making money. People my age have seen our parents stressing out about money for so many years, we've seen them sacrifice their healthy bodies and minds to jobs they don't like just to get money that they don't even truly need. What's the point?
The people who want the economy to keep growing also want you to think that having money is the only way to obtain anything that will make you happy, the only way to feel safe, so you better have a job and keep working. I believe it's really all about who your friends are, and I think doing something like a PCT hike is actually a completely sound monetary investment simply because of the connections you make with other hikers who are flexible-minded, motivated, confident, self-loving and successful people. Because of friends I've made in the past few years, I have a "permanent second home" on a farm in NW portland, I have friends across the country who would happily host me, I have smart&understanding friends who are willing to help me think through any life issues I'm trying to resolve, I have hiking buddies, I know people who do all kinds of different jobs and could possibly help me get a foot in the door if I wanted to try it. One way to see it is that you can focus on earning a bunch of money, which you can spend on a house & insurance so you feel secure, on counseling so that you feel understood, on expensive groceries so you feel healthy, on expensive trips so you can feel adventurous, on a diamond ring so you can "secure" someone else's love. But still your need wasn't money, it was security/understanding/health/adventure/love. You can seek out each of your true needs in a more direct and organic way and leave money out of the picture, depending more on a loving network of friends, giving you much more free time to enjoy your few short breaths on this planet. At least, that's what's making sense for my life at the moment
Re: PCT 2014/2015
Regarding your heart condition, my brother has been an insulin-dependent Type I diabetic since he was 12. I am certain that his diabetes has shaped many of his life decisions in ways similar to your own. In his case, a decreased life expectancy and long list of complications were likely to arise as his age advanced. Given this foreknowledge, he has always been more willing than most to accept risk in return for adventure and to seek experience over stability and predictability. We backpacked a lot together as young men.
I'd say he's done alright for himself. He's 62. He's had bypass surgery, but so far his eyes and his extremities are OK and his spirits are fine.
I'd say he's done alright for himself. He's 62. He's had bypass surgery, but so far his eyes and his extremities are OK and his spirits are fine.
Re: PCT 2014/2015
As a retiree, I have been on the receiving end of a fair amount of advice on how to "make my final years count." One piece of advice that has made sense to me is that the thing to worry about isn't what happens if you die early (your troubles will be over), the thing to worry about is what happens if you don't die early (you need to have the wherewithal to keep going). That is not to say that you shouldn't live each day fully and savor it. But don't underestimate the importance of mundane things like education/savings/health insurance/job which can help you keep enjoying life day after day for years to come.I guess the way I'm trying to live life is that if I die unexpectedly, it will be as though I knew it would happen and was living to make my final years count.
It sounds like you are in a good place in your life with a clear idea that friendship/love/security etc. are more important than money. Good luck with the second half of your hike!
Re: PCT 2014/2015
Everything you posted is great, but you will never have even a majority of the country thinking the way you are. Currency and the accumulation of wealth has been around for thousands of years and will never go away.potato wrote: ...all that stuff about happiness
That being said, I'm for you cashing in your 401k and living your life the way you want to live it. Yes, you'll take some penalties, but it's all on you and you know the consequences. You're only 27 or 28 and you're idealistic, so again, I say go for it.
You never know when your time will be up. A woman from my high school class died of stomach cancer when she was 26. I think about her from time to time. She spent practically her entire life preparing for life (going to school, graduating at 22) and didn't have time to live life. Then there was my class's salutatorian, killed at age 30 in a car crash.
Pursue happiness as best you see fit for yourself.