So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Use this forum to post links to news stories from other websites - ones that other hikers might find interesting. This is not intended for original material or anecdotal information. You can reply to any news stories posted, but do not start a new thread without a link to a specific news story.
User avatar
drm
Posts: 6133
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Location: The Dalles, OR
Contact:

Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by drm » May 24th, 2018, 6:31 am

The $200K could have put to better use but it wouldn't have repaired every trail. Some clearly have serious damage and money alone won't fix them.

The issue of closing trails to protect people is much broader than fire closures. Parents get put in jail for letting their kids play at the park without a parent watching 100% of the time. I'm sure we could all think of plenty of cases of an overprotective society that doesn't understand risk and it isn't just government. In this case, government is doing what most people feel. Corporations are just as bad if not worse.

User avatar
Waffle Stomper
Posts: 3707
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by Waffle Stomper » May 28th, 2018, 10:39 am

That's just crazy. Cheaper to post a sign, do not enter, or do so at your own risk. You will not be rescued.
Granted people will still disregard, just like the signs on the cliffs at the coast.

Or levy a huge reimbursement for crossing and needing rescue.
"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." - John Muir

User avatar
xrp
Posts: 524
Joined: May 2nd, 2012, 10:26 am

Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by xrp » May 28th, 2018, 4:31 pm

Waffle Stomper wrote:
May 28th, 2018, 10:39 am
That's just crazy. Cheaper to post a sign, do not enter, or do so at your own risk. You will not be rescued.
Granted people will still disregard, just like the signs on the cliffs at the coast.

Or levy a huge reimbursement for crossing and needing rescue.
No, Jerry is right. We need people to sit in their cars there, otherwise people will die.

The children will die. Hikers will have blood on their hands.

User avatar
retired jerry
Posts: 14396
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by retired jerry » May 28th, 2018, 5:06 pm

I detect sarcasm :)

I don't think they should have those cars there, but maybe it saves expenses bigger than the cost of the sitters

User avatar
xrp
Posts: 524
Joined: May 2nd, 2012, 10:26 am

Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by xrp » May 28th, 2018, 7:26 pm

retired jerry wrote:
May 28th, 2018, 5:06 pm
I detect sarcasm :)

I don't think they should have those cars there, but maybe it saves expenses bigger than the cost of the sitters
It was. I like Waffle Stomper's suggestion, actually.

justpeachy
Posts: 3066
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by justpeachy » May 29th, 2018, 6:56 am

The Forest Service is HUGELY sensitive to liability issues. Let's say there's no people in cars at the exits keeping people out, someone goes back in there where they're not supposed to be, they're killed by a falling rock or something, and the next thing you know you have headlines like this: "Why didn't the Forest Service do more to keep people safe?" and "Family of man killed by falling rock sues Forest Service for negligence." Sure, personal responsibility and all that, but that's not how the headlines would read.

User avatar
Guy
Posts: 3333
Joined: May 10th, 2009, 4:42 pm
Location: The Foothills of Mt Hood
Contact:

Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by Guy » May 29th, 2018, 7:14 am

justpeachy wrote:
May 29th, 2018, 6:56 am
The Forest Service is HUGELY sensitive to liability issues. Let's say there's no people in cars at the exits keeping people out, someone goes back in there where they're not supposed to be, they're killed by a falling rock or something, and the next thing you know you have headlines like this: "Why didn't the Forest Service do more to keep people safe?" and "Family of man killed by falling rock sues Forest Service for negligence." Sure, personal responsibility and all that, but that's not how the headlines would read.
But there has to be a line somewhere Cheryl, I know you are not saying this but following that logic people should be at the trailhead all the time warning of potential danger, and making sure we all have enough water and the 10 essentials, people die hiking every year.

The risk of being killed is going to be slightly higher hiking the Oregon side of the Gorge over the coming year's there is no way around that.

Through your TKO involvement do you know what agency is paying the 200k a month or is it a combination? Is a contractor being paid to do this?

thanks
Guy.
hiking log & photos.
Ad monte summa aut mors

User avatar
retired jerry
Posts: 14396
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by retired jerry » May 29th, 2018, 7:37 am

That is a commonly abused logical construct - if they're doing these folks in cars, then they should do folks in cars at all times at all trailheads which is ridiculous, so therefore they shouldn't do anything

The difference is in the gorge this is a one time event and the risk is much higher. People will be drawn to this like moths to flame. I assume these folks in cars will phase out this summer.

The FS had to make a decision about this. A little more conservative than what I would have done. Whatever...

There's that fable about the Miller, his son, and the donkey https://books.google.com/books?id=uqm5M ... MQ6AEIKTAA - no matter what you do, people will criticize. If you follow one person's advice, someone else will criticize that. The FS has to decide what to do and endure criticism.

Limey
Posts: 706
Joined: December 19th, 2012, 2:34 pm

Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by Limey » May 29th, 2018, 7:56 am

Guy, from what I've read and seen on TV, it is ODOT that is paying 200,000 a month to monitor the 6 mile stretch of the HCRH.

User avatar
Guy
Posts: 3333
Joined: May 10th, 2009, 4:42 pm
Location: The Foothills of Mt Hood
Contact:

Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by Guy » May 29th, 2018, 8:06 am

Limey wrote:
May 29th, 2018, 7:56 am
Guy, from what I've read and seen on TV, it is ODOT that is paying 200,000 a month to monitor the 6 mile stretch of the HCRH.
Yeah, which is what I had heard too but that seems a bit odd so I was wondering if one agency is paying another. It's of no consequence to ODOT (legally) if a hiker is hurt on a trail and the old highway can be blocked from car traffic effectively without people.
hiking log & photos.
Ad monte summa aut mors

Post Reply