I suppose eventually the manned guard stations will go, but the authorities will continue to cite trespassers and threaten to tow their cars (I don't know if any cars have been towed, but warning signs are posted). Of course, that might be a worse job than sitting in a vehicle blocking an I-84 exit.bushwhacker wrote:I can't believe they are going to have those poor folks guarding all those exit ramps all winter. That would be the worst job in the world to be stuck out there in December with the East wind blowing 50 mph and it being 20 degrees.
Gorge closure order
Re: Gorge closure order
- Eric Peterson
- Posts: 4097
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- Location: Oregon
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Re: Gorge closure order
You can still park along I-84 in a lot of places - restricted heavily still just east of Cascade Locks and further east past Wyeth where the freeway narrows to 1 lane traffic...
Re: Gorge closure order
Might be worth it if the citations are $1000 a pop.Chip Down wrote:I suppose eventually the manned guard stations will go, but the authorities will continue to cite trespassers and threaten to tow their cars (I don't know if any cars have been towed, but warning signs are posted). Of course, that might be a worse job than sitting in a vehicle blocking an I-84 exit.bushwhacker wrote:I can't believe they are going to have those poor folks guarding all those exit ramps all winter. That would be the worst job in the world to be stuck out there in December with the East wind blowing 50 mph and it being 20 degrees.
Re: Gorge closure order
Lurch wrote:This isn't really the thread to go down the rabbit hole of wilderness regulations, but your original post seemed more like a complaint that it's unfair that the wildlife gets to damage the wilderness, by being alive, but people are asked not to. If they're noticing an impact that's deemed detrimental to the inherent wildness of the wilderness, is it not their duty to enforce and protect its wilderness character, and mitigate the imprint of man, per the mandate in the actual Wilderness Act?Water wrote:
Please, elucidate the point of wilderness areas that require strict on-trail travel and no camping in perpetuity? I seemed to have missed it in the 40 other wilderness areas I've been that allow both of those activities.
I don't care what the elk do, I don't have a problem with the elk. The idea of using a 'use-path' that was there, and still is there, being verboten, I cannot understand. It is no more untrammeled by man than the fact that there are manufactured and maintained trails throughout the wilderness..which is nothing of a wilderness character if we're gonna be pedantic about definitions.
Feel Free to Feel Free
Re: Gorge closure order
For those of us who don't get down there much, can you post a link to the closure order that is keeping you from hiking off the maintained trail?
Re: Gorge closure order
I did not find a USDA-wide prohibition to off-trail hiking, in fact some areas encourage "dispersed camping" to keep the wear to a minimum.
However, there is a specific prohibition to shortcutting a switchback, as there should be. For visual evidence why it should be punishable, just look at the Hamilton Mountain trail which now has dangerous gaps due to the erosion of shortcutting. The prohibition can be found in Section 261.55(e):
§ 261.55 National Forest System trails.
When provided by an order issued in accordance with § 261.50 of this subpart, the following are prohibited on a National Forest System trail:
(a) Being on a trail.
(b) Using any type of vehicle prohibited by the order.
(c) Use by any type of traffic or mode of transport prohibited by the order.
(d) Operating a vehicle in violation of the width, weight, height, length, or other limitations specified by the order.
(e) Shortcutting a switchback in a trail.
[ 55 FR 25832, June 25, 1990, as amended at 69 FR 41965, July 13, 2004; 70 FR 68291, Nov. 9, 2005]
In another citing I located, "Violation of these prohibitions is punishable by a fine of not more than $5,000 for an individual or $10,000 for an organization, or imprisonment for not more than 6 months or both. 16 USC 3559 and 3571."
So, how much is it worth to you to not stay on the trail? If you balk at the price of a NW Forest Pass or NPS Park Pass, the $5,000 short-cutting fee is an attention-getter.
However, there is a specific prohibition to shortcutting a switchback, as there should be. For visual evidence why it should be punishable, just look at the Hamilton Mountain trail which now has dangerous gaps due to the erosion of shortcutting. The prohibition can be found in Section 261.55(e):
§ 261.55 National Forest System trails.
When provided by an order issued in accordance with § 261.50 of this subpart, the following are prohibited on a National Forest System trail:
(a) Being on a trail.
(b) Using any type of vehicle prohibited by the order.
(c) Use by any type of traffic or mode of transport prohibited by the order.
(d) Operating a vehicle in violation of the width, weight, height, length, or other limitations specified by the order.
(e) Shortcutting a switchback in a trail.
[ 55 FR 25832, June 25, 1990, as amended at 69 FR 41965, July 13, 2004; 70 FR 68291, Nov. 9, 2005]
In another citing I located, "Violation of these prohibitions is punishable by a fine of not more than $5,000 for an individual or $10,000 for an organization, or imprisonment for not more than 6 months or both. 16 USC 3559 and 3571."
So, how much is it worth to you to not stay on the trail? If you balk at the price of a NW Forest Pass or NPS Park Pass, the $5,000 short-cutting fee is an attention-getter.
Re: Gorge closure order
Note: Being on a trail" was, for some reason, shortened in the above citation. The GPNF order reads "Being on a trail in violation of posted instructions."
https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DO ... 800639.pdf
Similar USDA Orders seem to exist for each of the NFs.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DO ... 800639.pdf
Similar USDA Orders seem to exist for each of the NFs.
Re: Gorge closure order
I have assumed from what Water wrote that there was an off-trail closure specific to the Pole Creek area. I know that off-trail is not prohibited in general in the national forest.
- MarkInTheDark
- Posts: 220
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- Location: Portland, OR
- retired jerry
- Posts: 14398
- Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Re: Gorge closure order
"Our efforts to inform visitors regarding the fire area closure has spanned many weeks, and many warnings and citations have been issued. DUE TO CONTINUED BREACHES WITHIN THE AREA CLOSURE, LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS WILL ISSUE CITATIONS TO ALL UNAUTHORIZED PERSONS FOUND WITHIN THE AREA CLOSURE."