New Bridge Goin' Up On Eagle Creek Trail

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adamschneider
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Re: New Bridge Goin' Up On Eagle Creek Trail

Post by adamschneider » February 8th, 2017, 1:12 pm

I don't think the word "flouted" necessarily paints us as law-breakers. Reckless, maybe, but there's no law against that — and in many people's minds, going beyond a "danger, stay back" sign IS reckless. (See my profile picture.)

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kepPNW
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Re: New Bridge Goin' Up On Eagle Creek Trail

Post by kepPNW » February 8th, 2017, 1:45 pm

Actually, a little further searching (thanks, mountainkat!) puts the lie to this claim:
Jamie Hales, The Oregonian, wrote:I admit that my wording could have been different, but my information was accurate, and based on much more than hearsay. I’ve been talking with U.S. Forest Service officials at the Columbia River Gorge National Scenic Area since the beginning of the bridge issues, and they have reiterated time and time again that the trail is officially closed at the Tish Creek Bridge.
Specifically (emphasis mine):
CRGNSA wrote:Tish Creek Bridge at milepost 2.0 of Eagle Creek Trail (just past Punchbowl Falls) is out of commission. Do not use the bridge as it is unsafe. We do not recommend fording the creek for safety reasons.

Engineers have determined that replacement of the bridge will require a helicopter. Due to the area being suitable spotted owl habitat, helicopter operations can only be conducted from October to March. The project has completed design phase and we hope to install the replacement bridge by the end of March, but it is still not clear whether we will be able to meet our targeted timeline.

In the meantime, Eagle Creek Trail is officially open on both sides of the Tish Creek Bridge, but we cannot recommend fording Tish Creek for safety reasons. Instead, plan your entry onto the trail based on your desired destination and length of hike.

Source: https://www.fs.usda.gov/alerts/crgnsa/alerts-notices
And:
CRGNSA wrote:Is Eagle Creek Trail closed beyond the Tish Creek Bridge?

Eagle Creek Trail is officially open on both sides of the Tish Creek Bridge. The north side of Eagle Creek Trail can be reached from Wahtum Lake Trailhead, and the south side of the trail can be accessed from Eagle Creek Trailhead.

Source: https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/crgnsa/r ... eprd516276
So, either the CRGNSA is lying to the Oregonian, or the CRGNSA is lying to us. Either way, the Oregonian persists in publishing (easily!) demonstrable false information, and refuses to issue corrections when it's brought to their attention. Remember when nothing would horrify a news organization more than reporting FAKE NEWS?
Karl
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kepPNW
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Re: New Bridge Goin' Up On Eagle Creek Trail

Post by kepPNW » February 8th, 2017, 2:13 pm

adamschneider wrote:I don't think the word "flouted" necessarily paints us as law-breakers. Reckless, maybe, but there's no law against that — and in many people's minds, going beyond a "danger, stay back" sign IS reckless. (See my profile picture.)
verb
  • openly disregard (a rule, law or convention).
    "these same companies still flout basic ethical practices"
    synonyms: defy, refuse to obey, disobey, break, violate, fail to comply with, fail to observe, contravene, infringe, breach, commit a breach of, transgress against; ignore, disregard
    "countless retailers flout the law by selling cigarettes to children"
    antonyms: observe
  • archaic
    mock; scoff.
    "the women pointed and flouted at her"
I maintain, by virtue of the very definition of that word, that it's impossible to flout a rule or law you're unaware of. (Much less one that doesn't rise above a reality-level of "hearsay" or "rumor.")
adamschneider wrote:Reckless, maybe, but there's no law against that — and in many people's minds, going beyond a "danger, stay back" sign IS reckless. (See my profile picture.)
Sure, perhaps, really depends on countless factors. But recklessness isn't related to flouting, so it really isn't germane to this discussion. The USFS has offered its recommendation, and users of the forest must decide for themselves whether or not it makes sense under any given circumstances.
Karl
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forestkeeper
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Re: New Bridge Goin' Up On Eagle Creek Trail

Post by forestkeeper » February 8th, 2017, 3:44 pm

Karl? You sure are getting grumpy in your old age! I don't think I read a kind word from you yet today. You better watch out, if you're too crabby no one will change your Depends when you're in a retirement home in a few years. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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kepPNW
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Re: New Bridge Goin' Up On Eagle Creek Trail

Post by kepPNW » February 9th, 2017, 7:08 am

forestkeeper wrote:Karl? You sure are getting grumpy in your old age! I don't think I read a kind word from you yet today.
Heh, appreciate your concern, Will. :) (It's gotta be the virus/fever talking.)
Karl
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Bosterson
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Re: New Bridge Goin' Up On Eagle Creek Trail

Post by Bosterson » February 9th, 2017, 9:59 am

kepPNW wrote:this is my profile photo on Facebook right now! ;)

Image
Ohhhhhhhhh I am going to go call the MSHI to call the USFS to call the private landowners to call the po-lice on youuuuu.... :D

I hope you were there on your way back from a snow ascent of Minnie...
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miah66
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Re: New Bridge Goin' Up On Eagle Creek Trail

Post by miah66 » February 9th, 2017, 10:52 am

CRGNSA wrote:Is Eagle Creek Trail closed beyond the Tish Creek Bridge?

Eagle Creek Trail is officially open on both sides of the Tish Creek Bridge. The north side of Eagle Creek Trail can be reached from Wahtum Lake Trailhead, and the south side of the trail can be accessed from Eagle Creek Trailhead.
It technically is open on both sides of the bridge, but you cannot use the bridge or the creek to travel from one open segment to the other. Nothing would stop you from hiking on the Northern section from Wahtum, persay. Maybe that's an explanation, as ridiculous as it may seem.

Also FWIW, the website is hardly the repository of useful and timely information. There is probably an interoffice memo filed into a book somewhere that says the trail is closed, though you would never know it. They'll get around to doing all the other stuff like updating the website, signage, sometime in 2018. :roll:
kepPNW wrote:
forestkeeper wrote:Karl? You sure are getting grumpy in your old age! I don't think I read a kind word from you yet today.
Heh, appreciate your concern, Will. :) (It's gotta be the virus/fever talking.)
Yea, lots of grumpiness going around.
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kepPNW
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Re: New Bridge Goin' Up On Eagle Creek Trail

Post by kepPNW » February 9th, 2017, 12:00 pm

Bosterson wrote:Ohhhhhhhhh I am going to go call the MSHI to call the USFS to call the private landowners to call the po-lice on youuuuu.... :D
HA! Well, already had a long chat with Ray, following posting some of the photos from that trip. :)

And I'm relatively sure that shows me standing on public land, as well...
  • Image
    What better proof might a guy need?
Bosterson wrote:I hope you were there on your way back from a snow ascent of Minnie...
We didn't make it quite that far, I'm afraid, but saw some nice countryside as we wandered. :)
Karl
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BurnsideBob
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Re: New Bridge Goin' Up On Eagle Creek Trail

Post by BurnsideBob » February 9th, 2017, 12:05 pm

Very nice photo, Karl, you scofflaw!!!

Would guess that the USFS has an internal policy to post closure notices when material damage--like the Tish Creek Bridge outage--occur for liability reasons. Clearly not a priority "off season", and doubt there would be enforcement.

That said, some closures are enforced, like this one on the PCT 2000 in August 2012. Turned out there were two rangers watching for scofflaws up trail from this closure sign. They could see we had something encased in plastic, so when we left the trail sign they came down to see if we had tampered with the closure notices.

Image[/url]
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kepPNW
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Re: New Bridge Goin' Up On Eagle Creek Trail

Post by kepPNW » February 9th, 2017, 12:11 pm

miah66 wrote:
CRGNSA wrote:Is Eagle Creek Trail closed beyond the Tish Creek Bridge?

Eagle Creek Trail is officially open on both sides of the Tish Creek Bridge. The north side of Eagle Creek Trail can be reached from Wahtum Lake Trailhead, and the south side of the trail can be accessed from Eagle Creek Trailhead.
It technically is open on both sides of the bridge, but you cannot use the bridge or the creek to travel from one open segment to the other. Nothing would stop you from hiking on the Northern section from Wahtum, persay. Maybe that's an explanation, as ridiculous as it may seem.
Heh, pretty damned ridiculous, yeah. No prohibition against dipping yer toes in the creek.

In fact, there's not even a need to do so, during even semi-moderate flows...
  • Image
    Pretty sure that log isn't closed! (Photo: 12/31/16)
miah66 wrote:Also FWIW, the website is hardly the repository of useful and timely information. There is probably an interoffice memo filed into a book somewhere that says the trail is closed, though you would never know it. They'll get around to doing all the other stuff like updating the website, signage, sometime in 2018. :roll:
It's one of THE WORST government websites out there, no doubt. But it is the authoritative source for information from that agency. Maybe they are telling the Oregonian it's closed. Maybe the Oregonian reporter simply doesn't understand the distinction between a bridge being closed and a trail being closed. Hard to say. All we have is what they tell us. Which, by no sense of any definition of the word, could we consider bypassing the bridge to be "flouting" an official closure given... THE TRAIL IS OPEN! :)
Karl
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